So Much (More) to Say

Reluctant fan Nikki Van Noy first encountered the Dave Matthews Band in college, where she experienced a musical epiphany and found herself immersed in a cultural phenomenon that became a passion and almost a career following the band on their annual outings. A journalist and author, Van Noy has recently published “So Much to Say,” a fan’s perspective of the first 20 years of DMB. As a former chronicler of all things Dave for the band’s hometown alt-weekly, Van Noy interviewed me for the book, which debuted on June 7, 2011. I turned the tables on her for this chat about the book, her life under the spell of DMB and the fine art of combining one’s passions and making a living.


Nikki Van Noy

By Bill Ramsey | June 2011


Bill Ramsey: Your book begins with your own immersion into the world of the Dave Matthews Band 15 years ago. Your story has an almost born-again, religious tone of conversion — a reluctant non-believer enters the church of DMB and experiences a sort of musical rebirth. What is your mission with the book: Are you preaching to the choir, spreading the good word or simply affirming your faith — or all three?
Nikki Van Noy: It's probably closest to preaching to the choir. The hope is that "So Much to Say" captures a bit of the magic for those DMB fans who understand and value of the experience — sort of like the show recordings do, but in written form. I wanted to write something that would allow people to pick this book up 20 years from now when all is said and done and have that very visceral memory of, "Oh, yeah. That's what it felt like."

Most young people experience “a-ha” moments discovering The Beatles or Elvis. It’s a generational rite of passage. Do you draw a similar distinction with discovering DMB?
I think it depends from one person to the next and, also, I think it’s changed over time. From the many fans I interviewed, it seems like people in the earlier days sort of stumbled into DMB. They went to their first show for whatever random reason, had fun and kept going back. Because everything was still new, those earlier fans played a role in setting the tone for the live environment and community and what both of those things would become.

While I don’t know if DMB has reached the levels of the standard Bob Marley/Grateful Dead/Pink Floyd CDs my peers and I were practically issued along with our dorm-room keys freshman year of college, I certainly talked to a significant number of people who were turned on to DMB because older siblings or friends made it clear it was part of the college experience. Since more time has passed and the scene is so established now, I think newbies now go to shows with more expectations, both in terms of both the performance and the environment. Because of this, while it’s still a dynamic environment and experience, maybe it’s not as organic as it once was.

You write in your own discovery about the “personal connection,” the relationship the band has with its followers. In the beginning, it's an epiphany— these are my people! How has that changed over the years, by which I mean are there any moments when your devotion ebbs?
Definitely. I was very OCD about DMB when I first turned on to them in 1996. Around that time, the majority of my friends were also into them, so it was all DMB all the time: going to the shows, listening to tapes, trading tapes.

I remember stepping back from it all a bit in the early 2000s. I was still going to shows, but it got really big — a bit too big. I remember looking around PacBell Park in San Francisco after “Everyday” came out in 2001 and being a bit uneasy about the magnitude of it. It felt a bit more sterile somehow. I had a similar experience in the spring of 2002 at a show in Boston, when I realized everyone around me didn’t really seem that into what was happening onstage — it was more about talking to their friends during the show and getting blindingly wasted.

But the whole DMB scene tends to always cycle back around again too. I feel like around 2007 things contracted a bit again and a little bit of that old-school vibe returned. I come and go — some years I’ll go to a couple shows, other years a lot more than that, depending on what’s going on in my own life and what the general vibe is. This is subjective, though. I know for a fact a lot of fans would disagree about what years were the best.

The book includes a variety of voices who shed light on the band from their inception through their modern incarnation, but it doesn't not include direct contact with Matthews. Was that intentional?
I actually interviewed (DMB bassist) Stefan Lessard and his commentary is included. While it obviously would have been great to have more from the band side, if there is any member that’s appropriate for this sort of fan-driven book, it’s definitely Stefan. Over the years, he has become increasingly interactive with the fan base and seems to really advocate for DMB fans and give them a voice within the band. He’s quite in touch with what’s going on in the DMB community and seems to have an understanding of what songs fans want to hear that aren’t necessarily in frequent (or any other sort of) rotation.

You're an editor, a journalist and now an author. At what point did it first occur to you to turn from fan into chronicler of the band's history and what, if anything, changed from your initial idea proposal for the book?
I had what ended up being the seedling of this idea in December 2006. At the time I was working in publishing and spending all my creative energy working on other people’s books. I was increasingly frustrated and suddenly realized how long it had been since I’d written something for myself — it was all cleaning up and re-writing other people’s stuff.

I sat down to write and was stumped. I decided to stop thinking and just start writing about something that made me happy. What came out ended up being a haphazard essay about seeing DMB live. It got my creative juices flowing again, but I didn’t necessarily plan to do anything with it. Flash forward to September 2008, when I was at the Gorge (in Washington) and Berkeley, Calif., shows that immediately followed LeRoi’s death (the DMB saxophonist died from injuries sustained in an ATV accident at his Virginia home). As a fan, I was overwhelmed by the depth of emotion the fan base felt at the loss of LeRoi and the storytelling it sparked, with people remembering shows they’d seen him play. I realized then that the most effective way to document the entire history of DMB in a really authentic, meaningful way was through the fan base. That’s when the concept of this book clicked and I got moving.

There are a few books in the DMB canon already, none of which I can name of the top of my head. Besides tracing the arc of their existence and growth, what quality — besides its newness — do you think your book brings to library?
I probably shouldn’t admit this, but although I’m aware of other DMB books, I’ve never read them. When I want to read about the band, I go to the message boards. I feel like that’s where the real essence of and understanding of DMB is found. The idea of “So Much to Say” was to translate that sentiment into book form by letting the same people who are on the message boards tell the story. They “get” it more than any outside journalist or author really can (including myself — I’m just one person with one take on the experience). As far as I know, that’s the primary element that sets “So Much to Say” apart from other DMB books. Also, since the last book was written in the early 2000s, this one covers a lot more ground because massive chunks of the DMB story have happened since then: The Lillywhite Sessions, the trials and tribulations of the 2000s, LeRoi’s death, and the Big Whiskey era that’s followed in LeRoi’s wake.

As a serious student and now scholar of DMB, what did you learn along the way that you didn't know before?
I can’t say that I found much I didn’t already expect, but I continue to be overwhelmed by how much this band means to their fan base and what a real connection exists between band and fans. Through putting it all together in writing, I also gained a greater understanding of how adeptly DMB navigated the drastically changing music industry of the millennium, perhaps largely by accident. All the taping and trading dating back to their earliest days really allowed them to be nimble and open to drastic game-changers like Napster, not being wholly dependent on a music label, and emphasizing concerts rather than record sales for financial success.

With 20 years behind them, do you believe the band is as cemented in music history as its often closely paralleled comparison to the Grateful Dead?
In the course of writing this over the past couple years, I’ve become so conflicted about the DMB/Grateful Dead comparisons. Clearly, the parallels between the whole taping culture and travel aspect of the two bands are undeniable. But the big difference is that DMB has really straddled the mainstream and cult worlds, whereas the Grateful Dead primarily dwelled in the counter-culture. I do think that the real heart of DMB lies in their more cult following, but mainstream culture thinks it has a handle on DMB because, come on, who doesn’t know “Crash Into Me” and “Ants Marching”? Perhaps DMB’s more commercial success makes some people take them less seriously. It will be interesting to see where DMB is ultimately viewed as fitting into the music industry in the long run — and I think it could go either way. I’m not convinced the general public has a real understanding of how forward-thinking and revolutionary DMB really is from a business stand-point, or of how Deadhead-esque their significant cult following is. It will be interesting to see if this acknowledgement comes over time or not.

The Internet, the web, email, social media — these outlets really didn't exist when DMB first took hold (and I know this addressed in the book) but the band really grew along with technology, literally from Memorex to mp3, as you point out. How has that — perhaps especially Facebook and Twitter — enabled and connected the DMB "family"?
Antsmarching.org co-founder Matt Yette pointed out that DMB may well not be where they are today without the Internet. I think this is in some ways true. When the band first emerged, the Internet was still not that mainstream, but email was in colleges, which is largely where the DMB fan base took hold. Because DMB fans had more Internet access than the average American and also needed to communicate with other fans to trade tapes and learn about upcoming shows, they really were early adopters of online fan communication, dating all the way back to Minarets and DMBML. And, of course, it evolved from there, with increased Internet access and message boards leading to more and more fan communication and a more tightly knit, interactive community. DMB may only tour during the summer most years these days, but the community goes all year long and is just as compelling to many as the band itself. Most recently, Twitter changed things yet again, allowing Dave (for a while) and Stefan to really get into the mix with fans and start one-on-one dialogues that weren’t possible to this extent until a couple years ago.

Now that its about to be released, how are you feeling — proud, exhausted, wishing you could add another line? And are you going to tour?
Scared. DMB means so much to a lot of people and is in many ways a unique experience for each person. Also, I’m the first to admit that the whole thing is difficult to put into words. I know that, as a fan, I would read a book like this with a very critical eye because it’s someone else trying to explain what this means to me. I did it with a lot of help and input but, at the end of the day, it’s my name on the cover. Also, this is a fan base that knows so much about the band (and, certainly, there are people out there who know more than I do).

Ironically, for the first time in 15 years I’m not going to any shows this summer. I’ll spend this summer touring around with a very different band to write another book and am spending the money I would usually spend on DMB shows to spend my 11/11/11 birthday in Ireland and England. Having said that, when the more traditional tour resumes in 2012, I’ll be there with bells on. I’m curious to see what it will be like to “miss” the band for a bit.

Some of the books about DMB have been revised and updated. Given that there will likely be "more to say" down the line, can you see issuing such a volume in the future?
I’d love to revisit this when there’s “more to say.” I truly believe this is a band that will continue evolving and I think that the approach “So Much to Say” takes is the best way to tell its story authentically and with the heart DMB and their community bring to the table, which, to me, is really the most compelling part of the whole thing.

What else do you listen to and are there any other bands or artists you're as passionate about as DMB?
I’m a music lover in general, but DMB is at the top of the list — in large part because of the culture. Aside from them, I listen to everything from Billie Holiday to Death Cab for Cutie. I actually got turned onto Pete Kilpatrick Band through DMB this fall and have been on a big kick with them recently.

What is your favorite DMB moment?
I went to a show at Madison Square Garden in December of 2002 with a friend who was a huge Deadhead. I told him to go in with an open mind, but he was pretty dubious. DMB blew the roof off MSG that night to the point where the whole arena was literally rocking, culminating in this moment when the band brought James Brown onstage for a rollicking version of “Sex Machine.” I swear my ears are still ringing from all the noise that night. It was an explosion of energy that’s impossible to explain. I remember the look of elation on my friend’s face — he was just blown away. Seeing DMB win a hardened Deadhead over felt like a badge of honor.

What's next?
I’m writing another book this summer. The concept is similar in terms of bringing both fans a band into the narrative mix, but the difference is it’s in the pop genre and I’m more of an outsider looking in.

To learn more about Van Noy or to read an exerpt from the book, visit her website. “So Much to Say” is available in bookstores nationwide and online at Amazon and other sites.

© 2011 Bill Ramsey

Tags: Nikki Van Noy, Popular Music, Dave Matthews Band, Charlottesville